dim, 7 b9 and m7 b5

I´m collecting chord equivalences and this is the part of the table from 7b9 chord:

7 b9:
1 3 5 b7 b9
C E G Bb Db

dim7 b13:
1 b3 b5 b6 bb7
E G Bb C Db

dim7:
1 b3 b5 bb7
G Bb Db E

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzaluk
Pat Martino's book 'The Nature of Guitar" delivers a very eloquent way of looking at diminished chords and how they relate to Dominant 7th.

Take any diminished 7th chord (a stack of minor 3rds) and pick one note and lower it by a semi-tone. The result will be a Dominant 7th chord with the root of the note that was lowered.

For example:
take G#dim = G#, B, D, F
Lower G# to G gives G,B,D,F = G7th
Lower B to Bb gives G#,Bb,D,F = Bb7th
Lower D to Db gives G# (Ab),B, Dd,F = Db7th
Lower F to E gives G#,B,D,E = E7th

If you apply this to one position on the guitar and analyse the resulting chord forms you will see that each 7th chord represents a unique inversionn that basically conforms to one of the five guitar positions in the CAGED system.


G#dim.....G7....Db7...Bb7...E7
--4-------3-----4-----4-----4--
--3-------3-----2-----3-----3--
--4-------4-----4-----3-----4--
--3-------3-----3-----3-----2--
--------------------------------
--------------------------------


As you probably already know, the diminshed chord form is symetric on the neck which means that if the same chord form is moved up in minor third intervals (3 frets), all the notes of the diminished chord are repeated (in a new inversion). So, using this characteristic, it is possible to quickly construct new inversions of these same 7th chords by moving diminished chord form 3 frets and applying the same Martino rule. Move the form again and more inversions are revealed. This will work for any of your favourite diminished chord forms.

Of course this is not music but merely another piece of the puzzle that may help open up the neck a bit.

*********

Yes, very interesting undeed.
By the way, curiously, if we raise any note a half step we get the half diminished chord (m7 b5 - hd):


G#dim......Bhd....Dhd....Fhd...Ahd
--4-------5-----4-----4-----4--
--3-------3-----3-----4-----3--
--4-------4-----4-----4-----5--
--3-------3-----4-----3-----3--
--------------------------------
--------------------------------


I think this chord may be used:
-In major tonalities, as the 7th degree: an extention/substitution of the dominant (V):
G B D F -> B D F A

-in minor tonalities, as the 2nd degree: preparation or substitution of the dominant:
D F Ab C -> G B D F
Ab is the b9 of the dominant, and C is the 11th, so the II m 7 b5 is basically a DOM 7b9)

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context driven approach to music theory

There was this discussion on
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theory/429-clarify-tensions.html
that started as an argue between extensions and tensions, and ended up with more broad concepts, like musical layers...

In the so-called classical music we have several theoretical systems as well, although I always try to fit them together in the same unified theory. We had the modes of gregorian chant, them we had Middle-age (mostly V -I parallel fifths), baroque, classical, romantic, and 20th century had several systems. I see these as different approaches to a larger theory. For instance, although the nomenclature does not define a theory, the similarities between jazz harmony nomenclature and basso continuo in the baroque period are amazing.I can understand when you talk about different theories, but in my optimistic - maybe utopic - view, I prefer to talk about layers that musician keep adding, over the years.
--------
like that metaphor. Theory does seem to come in layers. When I learn new concepts (at least new to me), I wind up reshuffling the deck of things I already know with this new information.
-------
And sometimes these layers seem contradictory. Probably when we started learning guitar, we used those open chords with lots of tonics and fifths. Now we try to avoid them, because they sound bad. That's an example of something that was a rule and is now forbidden. We may see this on different levels, like:-our personal evolution-jazz evolution-the whole music history evolutionI guess we may arrange this paradoxes in our mental model as context-driven approaches. Or in other words, instead of saying "this is wrong", we may say "this is wrong on this context"...

intro of Dewey Square by Rosenwinkel

> Hi guys,>
> Anyone can tell me the chords to the intro of Dewey Square by Rosenwinkel?

Hi,they are as follows:
Emaj13 0x664x
Amaj7(#11) 5x664x
Abmaj7 4x554x
G7(#5) 3x344x
Gb13 2x234x
F7 1x124x
Emaj7 0x214x
Bb13(b5b9) 6x5430

The last chord can be fingered in other ways but I think that's what he uses - the piano plays a more "normal" voicing (containing the 7 that's missing here) but on the guitar we often have to use something like G/Bb or Em/Bb for a large chord like that since we can't have all the notes there.

Hope this helps,
Pete
www.petrikrzywacki.com

Instruments idiom

Some times these idiomatic things are an obstacle that we must overcome, like a horn player that must carefully choose the time to breathe.
Sometimes we learn a lot from imitating other instruments limitations. If we guitarists try to sing at the same time than we play a melody, we'll have to place breathe, and our music will become much more natural.(Just remembering an old lesson from the classical guitar days...)

Light My Fire

A minha contribuição para o forum:

Hello guitar mates,

I played this song for quite awhile.

Actually on the chorus it is:
G A D
G A D
G D E
(All major)

Terry did not have the wrong chords, only it was a whole tone down. The vocal start:
Gm7 Em7
Instead of the original:
Am7 F#m7

As for improvising, the chorus is on D major scale (C for Terry) and in the last chord it modulates up a whole tone to E major (D for Terry).
On the vocal part, A natural minor or pentatonic should work (G minor for Terry: G A Bb C D Eb F/Eb G)
On the solo part, the chords are Am7 Bm7 (Gm7 Am7 for Terry) but you can use the same scale as vocal part. Note that changes are twice faster.
The bass is awesome; you should try it as well. It goes like this:
------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
------------7-------------9--
---5-----8----7------10---5………
Am7 Bm7 Am7….
(Terry, as you should do it 2 frets down, i.e. starting on 3)

Since we’re here, the guitar solo is very interesting. It starts on first string: 3 5 7 8 7875…
The last part is ho and po (hammer on and pull off, I think)

Quotes from the masters

“Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple.”

- Charles Mingus

“You can play a shoestring, if you are sincere.”

- John Coltrane

"When people believe in boundaries, they become part of them." (Don Cherry)

"Do not fear mistakes. There are none." (Miles Davis)

"As you can see, we've been practicing all afternoon" (Joe Pass during a concert late in the afternoon)

Why is the guitar tuned the way it is?

Why is the guitar tuned the way it is?

Thanks for the great in-depth information Brian



As to why the major third, it seems quite obvious to me that it benefits open string chords, thus improving guitar sound. The examples that come to mind are: E chord (open E, B and E again), A chord (open E, A, E), C (open E, G, E), G chord (open D, G, B – all notes!).



If it was all fourths, we would need more fingers, and sound would not be so open. Let’s not forget that guitar sound volume has always been an issue, when compared to any other orchestra instrument, specially early when the construction was not as good as nowadays.

Of course when we talk about electric guitar on this jazz guitar context, these open-string chords are completely avoidable, because they mess up the sound.

My little bit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brian posted this:
Sent: quarta-feira, 20 de Junho de 2007 22:37
To: jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Why is the guitar tuned the way it is?



There is a wonderful book called "Guitar, Music, History and Players" by Richard Chapman.

It talks about surviving music for the vihuela. It says the vihuela was originally tuned like a lute and had 6 courses, while the guiterra had only 4. As far back as 1555 tunings for the six courses were given as ADGBEA and GCFADG.

In this book there are reproductions of diagrams from a self instruction book called "Guitarra Espanola y Vandola" written by Carlos y Amat in 1596.

The book is written for 5 course guitar tuned ADGBE, and the drawings show some of today's familiar chord forms being played.

I guess the "why" is long lost in history, but it seems that those players did then as they often do today (with dropped D, DADGAD, open G,A and E, to name a few), and tuned their instruments to whatever gave them the sounds they needed to be creative.

Without music life would be a mistake
..........Friedrich Nietzche

Bebop Scale

mixolidia (modo sol) é igual à escala maior mas a 7a é menor

a escala bebop é igual a escala maior mas tem as duas 7as (maior e menor). É também igual à mixolídia acrescida da 7ª maior.